On this episode, Mark and Dan take a deep dive into IBIT options. They also talk about what new options product they are most thankful for, how we handle our trades while on vacation, and much more.
Brought to you by Public.com
TRANSCRIPT
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Fall in boot.
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All right, everybody.
That music means we are back.
Once again, it is Education Wednesday.
Time to rock out on everyone’s favorite options educational program.
This is time once again for OBC.
My name of course Mark Longo from the options insider.com.
Remind me of a couple of things at the top of the show.
First off, if you like what you hear, do leave a like a star comment just like a JR tins did this week.
He said, here’s to another 200 episodes.
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I’m pleased to say his 200 plus episode streak is alive.
He is the black-headed one himself.
Mr.
Dan P from the old MTM.
Mr.
PMTM.
How you doing, sir?
Hey, I am wonderful today, Mark.
How are you?
How are things in the options Mecca known around the globe as Frankfort, sir?
Oh, gosh.
Couldn’t be better.
Fricking unicorns jumping over rainbows.
Oh, all shebang unicorns and rainbows.
Wow.
And I didn’t know things were that good.
Maybe I need to take a sojourn down to the southern options Mecca as we take a sojourn listeners into a little bit of the old options drills.
Oh, and much time for our favorite pastime option drills.
We’re going to take the strategies learned during the show and teach you how they can be employed to achieve a specific objective.
Do you hear me?
All right.
Let’s get into some of the old options drills listeners.
And this week’s topic is a very timely one.
You might say it is very much consuming the options world and is certainly at the forefront at the nexus of the options and crypto worlds.
What am I talking about?
Yes, unless you’ve lived under a rock, you know exactly what I’m talking about.
It’s I bit options.
They’re finally here in our hot little hands.
I’ll get to all the fun why it’s a big deal and why you should or maybe could be interested in these in a little bit.
But first, Mr.
Dan, I know in the past you’ve been interested in a little bit of Bitto.
I’ve seen you trade in some of these and some of your your mastermind sessions and things like that.
I think it’s fair to say in recent, I’d say six months to a year, maybe you’ve you’ve cooled a bit on the on the crypto options scene.
Is that fair to say, sir?
Yeah, I mean, I don’t know.
The last downturn, whenever that was a year and a half ago, two years ago, I don’t even know.
I just just I just lost interest to tell you the truth.
And you know, I’m still holding on to some stuff.
Unfortunately, most of it’s not Bitcoin.
I never thought that one would have went up to ninety five thousand dollars or whatever the hell it did.
But yeah, I don’t know.
I mean, I kind of lost interest in it and never really picked it back up.
I guess I should have.
But what are you going to do?
What you are going to do, sir, is listen to this fun episode and get your love, your interest rekindled.
What do you think?
Yeah, that sounds good.
Let’s do it.
Especially I think one of the things that’s been keeping a lot of people back, including listeners of this show, is there really haven’t been a lot of good, optionable ways to play, in particular, the big dog, which is Bitcoin, except for now, Mr.
Dan.
So we’re going to dive right into it.
Of course, I’m talking about the newly minted options on IBIT, aka the iShares Bitcoin Trust.
Coming into the start of the show today, it was looking pretty frothy in the mid fifties out there.
When you’re listening to this, who knows?
Could be two hundred.
Could be five bucks.
Who knows?
Bitcoin is just that wild listening.
But this one has been quite the saga.
Let me just let me just roll you through kind of how we got to where we are right now.
What a big deal it was.
If you recall, listeners, I went and I did the options panel at the Securities Traders Association Conference here in Chicago.
The big S.T.A. conference every year.
I ran that panel.
I had a bunch of people on everybody, the Flowmaster, other people, JJ from IG Group and Tasty and a bunch of people on there.
And one of the things everyone was very hotly anticipating was the launch of spot Bitcoin ETFs, approval of them by the SEC, because that was really going to change the game.
Right now, if you’re living in the options world and you wanted to play Bitcoin, you kind of had a dearth of options, pun intended.
You could go out there and trade some of the related products, you know, your maras and your coin bases, and they would move in approximation of what’s going on in Bitcoin.
But obviously, they weren’t one to one tracking vehicles.
And there’s other issues whenever you’re trading a company as opposed to a one to one tracking vehicle.
Then you have corporate issues and profits and malfeasance, all sorts of things can impact the valuation of that.
So everyone was waiting for something one to one tracking.
Of course, we got Bitto a few years back.
And that is optionable.
We have talked about it on this show in the past.
There’s problems with that one as well.
First off, it’s based off the futures, which aren’t the most liquid thing on the planet.
So there’s issues right there already.
And a lot of you don’t want the futures.
You want spot Bitcoin is what everyone was waiting for.
So you wanted a optionable underlying that tracks spot Bitcoin that you could trade options on in your securities account.
And that really wasn’t there.
Bitto also had these massive dividends, which I have talked about before that is attractive to a lot of people.
But it’s also distorted, especially around ex-div time.
There’s underlyings falling out of bed, options flow is going crazy, and these deep in the money trades to try to capture some of that dividend.
A lot of people don’t want to deal with that noise.
And it also isn’t a– it’s a close to one to one tracking vehicle, but it doesn’t track spot Bitcoin one to one.
For the issues I just laid down there, really, it’s had a pure, total return even with the dividend.
It is not quite one to one.
So some people have been skeptical about that.
So this January, when the SEC finally rolled around January 10th, it was, they actually approved– I think it was eight spot Bitcoin ETFs.
The big dog came out of iShares.
This was, of course, the iShares Bitcoin.
Trust out of BlackRock.
That was the hot thing.
Everyone thought, OK, here we go.
We’ve seen in the past, Dan, they’ve got it down to a science now in the options world.
We have a hot IPO.
It used to be a couple of weeks we’d have the options, Dan.
Now we get them within a couple of days, right?
So everyone was expecting on January 10th, OK, in a week or two, we would have spot Bitcoin options.
Were you thinking that as well, Dan?
Yeah, I was completely surprised that we didn’t get them really, you know, days later.
So January 11th rolled around.
Dan was surprised.
All of us were as well.
A couple of weeks rolled by nothing.
Then a couple of months rolled by Dan and still nothing.
And now I was starting to get a little bit concerned.
I was like, what’s the deal?
Clearly there is demand for these.
The exchanges are for profit public entities.
They want to list these things.
Something is gumming up the works.
Fast forward a few months to late spring, early summer, late April, early May, when I went down to the OIC conference, the options industry conference down there in Asheville this year.
Listen, I do my gamut of guests.
I bring on everybody from throughout the options world, the exchanges, the brokers, all sorts of players.
And I asked him a bunch of fun questions that you folks want to know about.
And one of the hot things you wanted us to ask him about was, of course, what’s up with these Bitcoin options?
And if you listen to any of those sessions listeners, and they’re all up on the network, you can hear them for yourselves.
But you would hear that a lot of our guests thought it was a question of maybe if we would ever see these rather than when.
There was a lot of behind the scenes things that had to be worked out.
And it sounded like the SEC was not too keen on approving options on the underlying that they had already approved many months before, which is again, just bonkers to me.
So a lot of people were saying, we may not ever see these things and it certainly won’t be this year.
So it was very dire.
So Dan, I came out of OIC in April, kind of a little bit dejected on the prospects of these things.
I was like, we may not ever see these things.
And we’re still not going to see them this year.
And then we had months of kind of just twiddling our thumbs and nothing happened.
And I wasn’t really surprised.
I went back down to the securities traders national conference around, I think it was early to mid September.
I asked a lot of people that same question, are we going to see these things again?
People were still skeptical in and around September that we might not see these things certainly not this year, if ever.
And then what happened, Dan, a few weeks later, September 20th, the SEC finally approved the options.
So if you’re tracking listeners, it was January 10th, they approved the underlying, but took them all the way till September 20th before they said, you know what, you can buy a put on that underlying if you want.
That’s still crazy to me, Dan, that it takes that long in the year of our Lord 2024, Dan, to be able to buy a put on an underlying you’ve already approved, took them.
Oh, another eight months, Dan, isn’t that wild?
Well, you know, you don’t want people to be hedging in or protecting themselves.
Yeah.
Who wants, why would the SEC want people to mitigate their risk madness, madness, I say.
So that was Friday, September 20th.
And guess what, Dan, another couple of weeks went by another month went by another month and a half.
Nothing.
Everyone’s like, what, what the hell they’re approved.
Why can’t we trade these things?
And Dan, no sooner did I turn off my microphones on my crypto rundown show last week on the network.
Then we finally got the listing and the approval for I bit options.
So let’s fast forward to now listeners.
Why is this such a big deal?
People are responding to this en masse.
Just look at the assets flowing into the I bit ETF as a result of this approval.
It has now, this was as of a week ago, it’s probably even more now.
It has Dan has surpassed black rocks, gold ETF.
So people are really loving themselves.
Some I bit they’re all in dance.
So you’re the lone man not on the totem pole right now, Mr.
Dan.
So so I bit comes out and it’s a, it’s a resounding success.
It’s been trading for about a week and a half now listeners.
And you know, you might wonder, okay, is this thing going to be hot?
Is it going to be liquid?
Is it going to have issues?
Like we’ve seen with some of the other products and the answer so far solely through the lens of options, that’s how we’re looking at this thing.
Really know it’s been a, it’s been a interesting surrogate.
Now if you’ve been listening to our crypto rundown show for the last five or six years, you’ll know we mostly analyze the flow, the skew, the volatility, the term structure on the world’s leading Bitcoin and crypto derivatives marketplace, which is Derebit.
It’s cool.
It’s great.
A lot of great data for us to analyze.
The problem for 99% of you coming from the US is that you can’t trade on Derebit.
You’re prohibited.
So we were talking about a lot of things that were really inaccessible to a lot of our listeners, Dan, and have been doing for some time.
That frustrated me, frustrated a lot of our listeners.
All this cool stuff.
I want to play with it too.
You have always cool toys.
I want to play with these cool toys.
Well, I bet seems like it is maybe starting to fill that role in your toy box listeners because the volume is there looking at the numbers right now.
The ADV, Dan, a little over a week out of the gate, 335,000 contracts a day.
So nothing to sneeze that Dan.
It’s actually putting up some numbers.
So if liquidity was your concern, then it is.
It is starting to deliver right now.
Today.
It was around 200,000 contracts.
Let’s see where we are right now into the show time a little.
Actually, Dan, we just shot up again.
It’s up to 336 today.
So it has already surpassed its ADV for the day.
So we’re not quite VIX numbers, but we’re getting into that territory.
I would say VIX and the dog days of summer numbers, Dan, what do you think?
Yeah, jeez.
I mean, being someone who has not really been tracking this closely at all lately, that’s really surprising.
I mean, I guess it’s good news, you know, but it’s really surprising.
And then looking at the vol numbers again, it’s lining up with what we would expect. 30 day vol in IBIT 61, which if you listen into our crypto rundown show, you know, is in line with what we’re seeing out there on the Darrabit platform.
And that’s one of the fascinating things.
In fact, I encourage you listeners, if you are intrigued by this, go check out the episode we did just this week with our buddy, Mr.
Greg Magadini from Amberdata.
They crunch all the data in the crypto derivatives platforms and have done so for years.
In fact, they just made their platform, the graphical version, the GUI free.
Check out.
So if you want to see some cool crypto options analytics, Amberdata.io, the place to go to kick the tires and like the fires.
I’d be love recommending great free tools for you folks.
And that certainly is one.
He crunches the numbers day in, day out.
He’s been looking at the skew, looking at the vol, looking at the term structure and how it shapes up.
And I bit is starting to shape up not quite one to one, but pretty darn close to what we’re seeing in Darrabit.
So the good news for a lot of you out there who’ve been looking for a liquid alternative to trade options on spot Bitcoin in your securities account.
It seems like we finally have it better late than never.
It took us, you know, nine months.
Well, actually, no, if it actually had them traded nine months just to get approved and actually 10 months, 10 and a half months to actually get them in our hot little hands on the security side.
But you finally have them out there, listeners.
So liquidity was a concern.
This hopefully the spreads seem pretty decent.
They seem like they’re holding up.
So that shouldn’t be a problem.
Seems like so far doing pretty decent tracking.
We have some data on this.
Doesn’t have that massive dividend.
Maybe a plus, maybe a minus for you.
I think a lot of people that’s a plus though.
Got dividend is is kind of a distorted out there.
And they’re putting up some decent numbers that I’m looking right now.
The top, let’s do a quick top position breakdown.
The top position right now with I bet, excuse me, is right around 55 bucks was the Jan double.
So Jan 55, 34,000 of those.
So people playing straight at the money.
As I recall, those were trading around $5.50 on Monday.
So if you sold that at the money covered call to Jan, Dan, that’s that’s 10% in your pocket right there.
So if you’re just looking for some yield, Dan, you know, at the end of the day, options traders, what do we want, Dan?
We want volume and we want volatility.
I bet certainly has both of those.
So if you just want to trade around a little bit, I suppose you can do worse, Dan.
What do you think?
Yeah, I mean, geez, Louise, check.
I mean, look at that chart.
I mean, went from 38 to 56.
And what is this?
Less than 15 trading sessions.
I mean, oh my goodness.
It’s like a lot of volatility, a lot of volume, not much of a vol chart yet because, you know, the options only been listed for so long.
So it’s hard to really get a good feel for relatively where Ivy has been.
But yeah, man, this, you know, I think I might be rekindling the fire just a little bit.
We rekindled the fire listener.
I think we did it.
His heart was black like the Grinch.
We might have rekindled.
He might have his heart might have grown three sizes this day listeners in the spirit of the holiday season.
So if you’ve been listening for a while, listeners, whether it’s our content or other people talking about, man, the juicy call premiums out there and Bitcoin and man, you wish you could overwrite them or trade verticals or whatever the case may be.
Maybe you want to trade some puts against your existing Bitcoin positions, wherever the case may be.
And you said, man, I wish I had more access to a more liquid product that tracked the spot.
There you go.
You now have one out there.
This is not a plug.
We’re not endorsing it by any means.
I just want to make you aware of what’s going on, the pros and some of the limited cons we’ve seen so far out here.
Again, it’s only a week and a half worth of trading.
But if you’ve been hearing all this stuff for a while and saying, man, I wish I could play.
I wish I had a product that could do this.
I mean, these yields are crazy. 10% for a month or two just for straight at the money covered calls.
That’s the kind of thing people are attracted by.
That could be certainly one at the very least a liquid product with some great spreads you can trade in and out of.
Not the worst thing for our listeners.
So we wanted to present that to you here as we keep rolling listeners into a little bit of your mail call.
Mail call.
Time to look at questions submitted by our listeners.
All right, everybody, let’s do it.
Let’s do it.
Let’s start off here.
Mr.
Dan, even though this is part one, I should say of our double header.
We did a double header last week.
So this episode will actually air on the network next week.
We are recording it right now, Dan, the day before Thanksgiving.
So I thought how better to celebrate the season, Mr.
Dan, than doing a fun poll about which new options products.
And I put new and air quotes, Dan, because some of these are not technically new, but they’re newer.
Which new options products are you most thankful for this year, Dan?
We gave you three choices and the infamous other.
We said zero day options.
What we were just talking about, the spot Bitcoin ETF options.
What was all the rage about a month ago, binary or event options or something else entirely, Dan?
Maybe there’s another new product we neglected to include that you want to add to the list.
Dan, what are you feeling?
What are you thankful for in the new product camp and what do you think our audience is thankful for?
Well, for me, it’s the zero day options.
I love those.
They’re not a big stretch from regular old options.
They have some interesting nuances.
But that’s one that I created that zero day hero scanner that searches for specific zero day option trades and alerts our traders about it.
The binary event options have been really interesting to look at too.
But I mean, I don’t know.
I like to bet on things only when I have an edge and I don’t have any better political insight than anybody else.
So I am unlikely to trade a lot of those, but I do like to look at them.
I think they give interesting information.
So yeah, but my number one bet is zero day options.
Well, Dan, I thought they might run away with it.
I think if we had posted this even a month or two ago, that might have run away with it.
But Dan, zero day options. 40 percent.
Guess what is beating them right now in our poll, sir?
It is not.
We just talked about it.
Oh my gosh, really?
That’s a big point.
ETF options.
Sixty percent of our audience, Dan, are thankful for they’ve only been listed a little over a week.
Wow.
That’s crazy.
And you know, I’m surprised.
I guess we did.
We had a timely episode today, Dan.
The folks are into it.
I told you this is the hot thing.
People have been waiting for this for quite some time.
Just ticked up, Dan.
Two thirds now.
Sixty six point seven percent.
Want spot Bitcoin.
They’re loving the spot Bitcoin options.
They can’t get enough.
They’re saying zero day.
Pasha, who cares about you?
Kick you to the curb.
You’re old at we’re all in on the eye bits of the world, Dan.
So, you know, here’s the deal.
You get a zero day.
I bit man.
Chefs kiss.
Then everyone’s going crazy.
But we’re not quite there yet.
Let’s make this a no love for the binaries or events right now, Dan.
And just some silly others coming in.
But I thought that was kind of a fun poll.
Apparently, everyone’s thankful for I guess you’re thankful for this episode.
We did it at the right time, Dan.
Let’s go out.
Also, our actual question the week right now, Dan, you know, we blew through six thousand post election in the S&P 500.
Then we’ve kind of had a hard time maintaining that we’ve fallen off quite a bit, rallied back close to it a little bit through it right back down again, doing the ladder again today right back to actually looks like we’re kissing.
We’re about to kiss six thousand.
Maybe we’ll rally back up through it again.
But Dan, it has been a tumultuous period post six thousand.
Can’t really maintain it.
So we asked a very simple question.
Do you think the S&P will close above six thousand at the end of the year?
Heck yes.
Hell no.
Or who cares?
I’m in crypto or who cares?
I’m in cash.
Mr.
Dan, which way you go, which way is our audience go?
I mean, we’re so close.
I mean, I am going to say that.
Yes, we probably will.
Yes.
I don’t have a ton of conviction on that, but I mean, I don’t know.
I think a new catalyst would have to come in order to change my answer to that question.
A new catalyst in.
Let’s see right now, Dan, our audience says, heck yes.
Sixty one percent.
Hell no.
Twenty two percent.
A nine point eight percent.
They’re loving the I bet.
They’re saying, who cares?
I’m in crypto, Dan.
And then seven point three percent.
Who cares?
I’m in cash.
I get out there.
That one goes through the end of the week list.
So that is our actual question of the week.
And speaking of questions of the week, it’s that time listeners.
It is time for the market taker question of the week.
And now it’s the moment you’ve been waiting for.
It’s time for the market taker question of the week.
All right, Mr.
Dan, the folks are waiting eagerly, sir.
What you got for him this week?
Well, right before our call here today, I was looking to book a rental car for a trip I have coming up.
I’m going to be gone for a week.
And you know what?
I don’t want to do a lot of trading while I’m gone.
And so a lot of people ask me time to time, you know, what you know, how do you handle your trades when you’re on vacation, when you’re out of town?
And simply answer for that.
I try and close all my trade trades, long term investments.
I tend to get out of the option components of them, covered calls and stuff and just take a little break on those.
Or I’ll keep them on and I’ll just look at them once a day, once every other day.
But the one thing that I never want to do is be on vacation.
You know, like you’re about to go down a ski slope and you get an alert that this trade is against you and you know, it just ruins your whole day.
So my advice, take off positions before you go on vacation.
Good advice, sir.
I did that right before the August 5th meltdown, took off all my UVic, sir.
And wasn’t the best dude.
Sometimes, sometimes you got to live to fight another day, sir.
Say Lavi, sometimes you miss the ten handle move that you’re waiting for all year in UVics.
But say Lavi, that’s a conversation for another day.
Mr.
That UVics is not a product you could leave on and set it and forget it, right?
That thing is insane.
So you couldn’t do it, but still, it does make me look back and say, hmm, I wonder.
Mr.
Dan, if folks are wondering themselves, they want to check out what you got cooking.
Where should they go?
What should they do?
Sure.
We’d love to entertain you at MarketTaker.com.
Make your way in over to MarketTaker.com.
Two T’s in a row.
And you can join, get some of our classes for free.
Join the chat room for free right now.
Because we love our listeners.
You know who else we love?
Listeners.
It’s our friends over there at Public.
They are literally the reason you’re getting the show in your hot little hands completely free this week because they like you folks too.
They love you folks so much.
They’ve been pretty much renewing through the whole end of the year here.
So they’re loving you folks.
Keep the love alive.
Return the favor.
Head on over to Public.com/OptionsBootCamp.
Very easy URL.
It’s all you got to do.
Go over there.
Go to that URL.
They will see that you’re coming from our show.
And that gives great support to the show you’ve been listening to for well over a decade.
While you’re there, if you want to kick the tires and light the fires, try out a rebate.
No one’s going to hold it against you out there.
Not the worst thing in the world to get paid to trade some options.
On top of that, if you have some feedback, some insights you want to share on their platform, that’s why they’re sponsoring this show after all.
They want to get you folks over there to kick the tires and light the fires and see what it is they’re doing.
They are brand new additions to the options universe.
We love seeing that.
We love seeing new blood in the world of options.
Things got, I don’t know, dare I say, a little stagnant in the options world over the past four or five years.
We want to see some new blood coming in, shaking things up, even if they did have a wild Michael Bolton payment for order flow commercial from a few years ago.
Go check that out on YouTube if you haven’t seen the list.
One of my favorite deep in the rabbit hole inside baseball things I’ve ever seen.
Michael Bolton singing about payment for order flow, courtesy of our friends over there at Public.
Let them know you like it.
Public.com/optionsbootcamp, the place to go to learn more.
Dan and I have to get on out of here.
We’re going to eat some turkey, stuff our faces tomorrow, but we’ll be back next week by the time you’re hearing this.
If you’re listening live, we’ll be back instantaneously for episode two of our options boot camp double header.
We’ll see you then and stay safe out there.
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Full disclosures and podcast description.
You’re listening to the Options Insider Radio Network, the home of the options podcast.
For more quality options programs, visit theoptionsinsider.com or search for Options Insider Radio Network in your podcast provider of choice.
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Options are not suitable for all investors and carry significant risk. Option investors can rapidly lose the value of their investment in a short period of time and incur permanent loss by expiration date. Certain complex options strategies carry additional risk. There are additional costs associated with option strategies that call for multiple purchases and sales of options, such as spreads, straddles, among others, as compared with a single option trade.
Prior to buying or selling an option, investors must read and understand the “Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options”, also known as the options disclosure document (ODD) which can be found at: www.theocc.com/company-information/documents-and-archives/options-disclosure-document
Supporting documentation for any claims will be furnished upon request.
If you are enrolled in our Options Order Flow Rebate Program, The exact rebate will depend on the specifics of each transaction and will be previewed for you prior to submitting each trade. This rebate will be deducted from your cost to place the trade and will be reflected on your trade confirmation. Order flow rebates are not available for non-options transactions. To learn more, see our Fee Schedule, Order Flow Rebate FAQ, and Order Flow Rebate Program Terms & Conditions.
Options can be risky and are not suitable for all investors. See the Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options to learn more.
All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. Brokerage services for US-listed, registered securities, options and bonds in a self-directed account are offered by Open to the Public Investing, Inc., member FINRA & SIPC. See public.com/#disclosures-main for more information.